Is Islam women friendly?

hello!!!

I am a convert and at first had an issue with this verse, b/c we are taught that hitting is not accepted in western society. But as gretchen stated before, it is only in the most severe of cases and it is not for the men to abuse the ladies. once one of the companions asked Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) what he would hit his wife with if she was really out of line and he picked up his swaak and said this is what i would hit her with. Swaak is the plant limb that some muslims use to brush their teeth (size of a toothbrush). so as you can see he meant it as more of a gesture (wake up call) for the wife. Not to abuse or hurt her.

Also, it is said that a man will be asked by Allah how he treated his wife, so the men are not allowed to abuse their wives.

masalaama..

Holly,

Blessings!

I am blessed and thankful that there is another Muslim woman willing to discuss the topic at hand. Thank you for joining our discussion.

Holly, if it is ok for me to ask, how did you become a Muslim?

For me Holly, a husband hitting his wife is not a matter of Western Vs. Eastern society, but a matter of character and moral issue based on the "Word of God". Not only is not ok to hit your wife in the West, it is not ok according to the Holy Bible! I base my world view off of the Bible not what is excepted or not excepted n the eyes of others, so I find this very disturbing that a "revelation from Allah" would give such a sick instruction for marriage.

The question at hand is "Did God reveal this instruction, that it is ok to beat your wives if you "fear disloyalty and ill-conduct"?" The answer according to the "Quran and Hadiths" would be, YES!

"...As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct...And last beat them lightly;..." (Sura 4:34)

Holly I am finding it extremely unlikely that God would instruct a husband to strike his wife for any reason at all! I am hearing this from you and others as well, but this does not take away the instruction that is given in the Quran, the examples that are followed in the Hadiths, and the many women suffering around the world because of this example, instruction and command. This makes me question the Quran as the Word of God, but that is a different thread and topic.

...But as gretchen stated before, it is only in the most severe of cases and it is not for the men to abuse the ladies.

So in severe cases it is ok to beat your wife?

Severe cases? "...if you fear disloyalty or ill-conduct..." are the cases stated!!!

Fearing disloyalty is far from severe!!! How many Muslim women suffer daily because men "fear" disloyalty, that is not even to say it is true, but they simply fear it!

As for ill-conduct? I just don't get it! How a women can justifiably be beaten for these reasons or ANY REASON AT ALL! Something is just not right about this perspective!

Please I want you and the readers to understand that I understand that you and others think that this is wrong for a women to be beaten, and that is a right perspective, but this does not take away the Quran's" instructions on the topic, among other injustices!

...once one of the companions asked Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) what he would hit his wife with if she was really out of line and he picked up his swaak and said this is what i would hit her with. Swaak is the plant limb that some muslims use to brush their teeth (size of a toothbrush). so as you can see he meant it as more of a gesture (wake up call) for the wife. Not to abuse or hurt her.

I take note of the "good" things that have been quoted by you and others, but it does not take away the shocking things that I find in the Quran and Hadiths. I see more than one picture painted! I see a double standard!

Have you ever heard the phrase "Actions speak louder then words!"?

I hear you saying "...once one of the companions asked Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) what he would hit his wife with if she was really out of line and he picked up his swaak and said this is what i would hit her with..."

But I see Mohammad responding like this:

Mohammad hitting his favorite wife A'isha.

Book 004, Number 2127:

"He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain,..."

(http://www.usc.edu/de...)


As I read the Quran and Hadiths I am shocked by what I find, what is revealed, and the insight I gain on how women are viewed in Islam. The view that is portrayed of women is shocking, and not only shocking, but confirmed by Hadiths and throughout the "Muslim World" by actions!

Thus far we have only discussed:

1. "Beat" your wives if..." Sura 4:34

2. "Women are the majority in hell". Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, Nrrated Abu Said Al-Khudri

3. "Women lack intelligence" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri

4. "deficient religion" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri


Hadith Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:

"Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, 'Why is it so O Allah's Apostle?' He replied, ' You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.' The women asked, 'O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?' He said, ' Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man? They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'"
(Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri)

continued...

Is it true that a husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a dirt field?

Sura 2:223 says:
Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur?an, Oxford UP, 2004)

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 51:
Jews used to say: ?If one has sexual intercourse with his wife from the back, then she will deliver a squint-eyed child.? So this Verse was revealed:--

"Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth when or how you will." (Sura 2.223)

(http://www.usc.edu/de.... )

Are you serious? Am I missing something here?

Should we have no doubt that the husband controls the sex life?

If a woman does not want to have sex, then angels curse her? Is this correct?

. . . "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning."

Unbelievable!!!!

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband)."

(http://www.usc.edu/de.... )


Holly, I am not sure how you are ok with this, but I would love to hear you share.

Blessings!

Sincerely,
Heather

Please do so, so that i may proceed in building up your understanding of this most misunderstood / misrepresented verse. INSHALLAH

Thanks

For reference: http://www.alislam.or...

Sid,

Blessings!

Ever since you sent me to this translation of the Quran and commentary, the last couple of nights I have been thinking,

"What is it that the Sid and so many women do not see the simple facts of what is on the pages and the evidence that is before them?"

I took the liberty to put five different translation side by side to see how they read. I put in bold the points we are addressing and how differently they read depending on the translation, but yet the same outcome.

Also I could not help but to notice the commentary on your link (http://www.alislam.or.... )

Your translations reads( For reference: http://www.alislam.or.... ):

Sura 4:35 "Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, because men spend on them of their wealth. So virtuous women are obedient, and guard the secrets of their husbands with Allah's protection. And as for those on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and keep away from them in their beds and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, Allah is High and Great."


Other translations (http://www.usc.edu/de...

Sura 4:34

YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Professor (Dr.) Syed Vickar Ahamed: " Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part you fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, caution (and warn) them (against the specific faults, at first) refuse to share their beds (next), beat them (lightly, at the very last); But if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of angering them): Truly, Allah is Most High, Most Great."

At the end of the day the instruction has not changed in any of these translators, including yours, Sid.

chastise- 1. to inflict corporal punishment.

beat- 1. to strike repeatedly as in chastising.

scourge- 1. a whip or lash, esp. for the infliction of punishment or torture.

(Ref: The American College Dictionary)

continued...

Sid,

As for your commentary I could not help but notice some things!


Your preferred commentator has only confirmed the mindset, world view, outlook, or what ever you want to call it, how The Quran and Hadiths view woman.

598 Qawwamun is derived from Qama and Qama 'Alal-Mar'ati means, he undertook the maintenance of the woman; he protected her. Qawwamun, therefore, means, maintainers, managers of affairs; protectors (Lisan). The verse gives two reasons why man has been made head of the family, (a) his superior mental and physical faculties; and (b) his being the bread-earner and maintainer of the family. It is, therefore, natural and fair that he, who earns and supplies the money for the maintenance of the family, should enjoy a supervisory status and the disposal of its affairs.

Sid, would you agree that men tend to be more superior mentally then women?

Sid this is the mindset I am speaking of! Do you see it? According to the Quran and a lot of men in the Hadiths and Muslim men, women are not viewed as intelligent, and that is being made clear from Islamic sources, not any outside sources.

The Quran, Hadiths, commentators, the author of the Quran and his counterparts all reveal their understanding of women.

'Aisha understood this and spoke of it!


Volume 1, Book 9, Number 493:

Narrated 'Aisha:

The things which annual prayer were mentioned before me (and those were): a dog, a donkey and a woman. I said, "You have compared us (women) to donkeys and dogs. By Allah! I saw the Prophet praying while I used to lie in (my) bed between him and the Qibla. Whenever I was in need of something, I disliked to sit and trouble the Prophet. So, I would slip away by the side of his feet."

Volume 1, Book 9, Number 498:

Narrated 'Aisha:

It is not good that you people have made us (women) equal to dogs and donkeys. No doubt I saw Allah's Apostle praying while I used to lie between him and the Qibla and when he wanted to prostrate, he pushed my legs and I withdrew them.

(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

Hadith Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301:

"Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, 'Why is it so O Allah's Apostle?' He replied, ' You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you.' The women asked, 'O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?' He said, ' Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man? They replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?' The women replied in the affirmative. He said, 'This is the deficiency in her religion.'"
(Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri)


1. "Beat" your wives if you fear disloyalty or ill-conduct..." Sura 4:34

2. "Women are the majority in hell". Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, Nrrated Abu Said Al-Khudri

3. "Women lack intelligence" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri

4. "deficient in religion" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri

5. "Go into your wives whichever way you like" (Sura 2.223)

6. "If women refuse to have sex with their husbands, then they will be cursed by angles" Narrated Abu Huraira:Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122

Sura 2:223 says:
Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur?an, Oxford UP, 2004)

Volume 6, Book 60, Number 51:
Jews used to say: ?If one has sexual intercourse with his wife from the back, then she will deliver a squint-eyed child.? So this Verse was revealed:--

"Your wives are a tilth unto you; so go to your tilth when or how you will." (Sura 2.223)

(http://www.usc.edu/de.... . )

Are you serious? Sick!

Should we have no doubt that the husband controls the sex life here?

If a woman does not want to have sex, then angels curse her!

. . . "If a man invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning."

Unbelievable!!!!

Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

The Prophet said, "If a woman spends the night deserting her husband's bed (does not sleep with him), then the angels send their curses on her till she comes back (to her husband)."

(http://www.usc.edu/de.... . )


I know there are some good things said about women in Islam. If a person goes to court for rape and murder and the defense says the man was a great father to his kids and his wife and he never harmed them, would his good behavior at home make up for and justify the serial rapes and murders that were uncovered?


Peace!

Sincerely,
Heather

Blessings!

WOMEN HAVE A CROOKED NATURE? Don't we all, men and women?

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The woman is like a rib; if you try to straighten her, she will break. So if you want to get benefit from her, do so while she still has some crookedness." (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 7, book 62, number 113, Khan)

It appears that the Apostle of Islam here once again does not have that high of a viewpoint of women? Am I missing the meaning on this one as well?

Thus far we have looked at:

1. "Beat" your wives if you fear disloyalty or ill-conduct..."
Sura 4:34 (http://www.usc.edu/de...)

2. "Women are the majority in hell".
Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, Nrrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

3. "Women lack intelligence"
Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

4. "deficient in religion"
Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri (http://www.usc.edu/de...)

5. "Go into your wives whichever way you like" (Sura 2.223) (http://www.usc.edu/de...)

6. "If women refuse to have sex with their husbands, then they will be cursed by angles"
Narrated Abu Huraira:Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122 (http://www.usc.edu/de...)

7. Women are equal to dogs and donkeys.
Volume 1, Book 9, Number 498: Narrated 'Aisha: (http://www.usc.edu/de...)

8. Women have a crooked nature. ?The woman is like a rib; if you try to straighten her, she
will break. So if you want to get some benefit from her, do so while she still has some
crookedness.?
(Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 7, book 62, number 113, Khan) (http://www.usc.edu/de...)



Sincerely,
Heather

Blessings!

I have not heard back on the "crooked nature of women" so I will assume that there are no objections to my research on Islam and Women on this particular point?

The Qur'an says that the testimony of a woman is not equal to that of a man. It says that the testimony of two women is required to be equal to the testimony of one man.

Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses. (Quran 2:282, Dawood)

Why is it that the testimony of a woman is only worth half that of a man?

Does your answer to the question match your prophet's?

Muhammad explains in the following hadith.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: The Prophet said, "Isn't the witness of a women equal to half that of a man?" The women said "yes". He said "This is because of the deficiency of the women's mind." (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 3, book 48, number 826, Khan)

Thus far we have looked at:

1. "Beat" your wives if you fear disloyalty or ill-conduct..." Sura 4:34
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

2. "Women are the majority in hell".
Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, Nrrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

3. "Women lack intelligence" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

4. "deficient in religion" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

5. "Go into your wives whichever way you like" (Sura 2.223)
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

6. "If women refuse to have sex with their husbands, then they will be cursed by angles"
Narrated Abu Huraira:Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

7. Women are equal to dogs and donkeys.
Volume 1, Book 9, Number 498: Narrated 'Aisha:
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

8. Women have a crooked nature. ?The woman is like a rib; if you try to straighten her, she
will break. So if you want to get some benefit from her, do so while she still has some
crookedness.? (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 7, book 62, number 113, Khan)
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)

9. Two women's testimony is equal to one man's because of the deficiency of the women's mind." (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 3, book 48, number 826, Khan)
(http://www.usc.edu/de...)



Sincerely,
Heather

Blessings!

Please know as I research out Islam and the status of women, that my intention is not to offend Muslims, but to see and understand how women in Islam are dismissing these authentice sources (Quran and Hadiths)?

I tell people if they want to know what a religion teaches then read the Scriptures of that particular religion. This is what I am doing with Islam. If one wants to know about Islam, shouldn't a person go to the Quran and the Hadiths (authentic hadiths: Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and etc)? The are where all these appalling findings are coming from, the Quran and the authentic Hadiths!

Here is some more appalling findings:

Wives and those whom their right hands posses (sex slaves?)

And those (men) who preserve their chastity Save with their wives and those whom their right hands possess, for thus they are not blameworthy. (Qur'an 70:29-30, Pickthall)
http://www.usc.edu/de...

Marriage in Islam binds a woman to one man but not the man to that woman. Men have an advantage over women in divorce.

??And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them?? Quran 2:228
http://www.usc.edu/de...

A man is allowed multiple wives and an unlimited number of slave girls.

Muhammad had many wives and slaves girls, and taught this in the Qur'an, although he would only allow his son-in-law, Ali, to have one wife. Why? Because Ali was married to Muhammad's daughter, Fatima.

Narrated Al-Miswar bin Makhrama: I heard Allah's Apostle who was on the pulpit, saying, "Banu Hisham bin Al-Mughira have requested me to allow them to marry their daughter to Ali bin Abu Talib, but I don't give permission, and will not give permission unless 'Ali bin Abi Talib divorces my daughter in order to marry their daughter, because Fatima is a part of my body, and I hate what she hates to see, and what hurts her, hurts me." (Sahih Bukhari: volume 7, book 62, number 157, Khan) http://www.usc.edu/de...

What hypocrisy!

Prophet! We [?we? means ?God?] have made lawful for you the wives to whom you have granted dowries and the slave girls whom God has given you as booty; the daughters of your paternal and maternal uncles and of your paternal and maternal aunts . . . and any believing woman who gives herself to the Prophet and whom the Prophet wishes to take in marriage. This privilege is yours alone, being granted to no other believer. . . . [We grant you this privilege] so that none may blame you. . . . You may . . . take to your bed any of them you please.? Quran 33:50-51
http://www.usc.edu/de...

Then, as if feeling sheepish after such an impulsive outburst of doting indulgence, God cautioned:

[After this] it shall be unlawful for you to take more wives or to change your present wives for other women, though their beauty please you (Quran 33:52).
http://www.usc.edu/de...

Why does a "holy prophet" need to be publicly warned to avoid wife-trading?

continued...

But wait ? there is more! Lest Mohammed feel miffed to have to endure even the above-mentioned minimal limitation, God is suddenly indulgent again, adding an oh-so-generous unless

?they are slave girls whom you own? (Quran 33:52). http://www.usc.edu/de...

Any time Mohammed wanted to add spice to his sex life, all he had to do was raid another town or caravan for female slaves, or buy some, and God would approve? So, in fact, for him there really was no limit!

Verse 33:50, interestingly, admits a need to shield Mohammed from blame for having sex with so many women. Obviously someone sensed that common conscience, unless somehow anesthetized, would indeed condemn his excess as wrong, even among his own followers. Therefore, if moral standards must be lowered to make a leader?s abnormality appear right, who better than God, inventor of morality, to lower the standard?

I see 'Aisha recognized this and even expressed in this Hadith:

Narrated Aisha:

I used to look down upon those ladies who had given themselves to Allah's Apostle and I used to say, "Can a lady give herself (to a man)?" But when Allah revealed: "You (O Muhammad) can postpone (the turn of) whom you will of them (your wives), and you may receive any of them whom you will; and there is no blame on you if you invite one whose turn you have set aside (temporarily).' (Sura 33.51) I said (to the Prophet), "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."

http://www.usc.edu/de...

Concerning ?God? and Mohammed, one wonders which was the servant and which was the master? Mohammed reduced his God virtually to the level of a procurer, a mere auxiliary to himself.

Rules for Making a Female Slave an ?Honest Women?

Occasionally a Muslim man would decide that a captive woman whom Mohammed had given him to use as a sex slave should be his wife instead. Chapter 4 in Mohammed?s Quran lays down three conditions that had to be fulfilled before a mere slave could be the wife of a Muslim man. M. M. Ali lists them:

1. The slave be a believer (see Quran 4:25). http://www.usc.edu/de...

2. A man must persuade the community that the he cannot afford the bride price for a free woman (see Quran 4:25). http://www.usc.edu/de...

3. The man is afraid he will fall into sin if he does not marry that pretty slave. (Ibid, comment 561)

All a male Muslim need do is admit a little weakness. Could this be the reason God had to cater so obeisantly to Mohammed?s desire for sex?

Sura 70. Al-Ma?árij, Mohammed invited male Muslims to descend to the same lower material standard God had already authorized for him. First, though, posing as a guard for morality, Mohammed commended male Muslims who ?control their desires? (Quran 70:29, Rodwell). Then he added indulgently,

?Save with their wives and slave girls; for these are lawful for them? (Quran 70:30; see also 23:5).

* The slaves mentioned in these two verses are not included in the category of wives.
http://www.usc.edu/de...
http://www.usc.edu/de...

What is Mohammed really saying? Control your sexual desires because God is granting you greater opportunity to indulge them? Again, this absolution from ?blame? (see Quran 33:52) reveals Mohammed?s awareness of a higher moral standard and his deliberate intent to lower it.
http://www.usc.edu/de...

How Muslims Justify Mohammed

How do Muslims defend Mohammed? The previous quotes show that for Mohammed himself, ?God let me do it? was defense enough. M. M. Ali, ever ready to strengthen what Mohammed left weak, adds a reason Mohammed and his God both forgot to give 1,400 years earlier in the Quran. Ali claims that Muslim male casualties in battle left many women widowed.

Mohammed prescribed polygamy, Ali suggests, because so many widows needed care and there were no single men to wed them. Yet Mohammed forbade anyone to wed any of the numerous widows that he would leave when he died (see Quran 33:53b). And what about the slave girls with whom Mohammed had sex? They were not widows. What kind of special care did they need, prompting Mohammed to have sex with them?

http://www.usc.edu/de...

In Quran 4:3 it is caution or the lack of self-control, not an excess of widows, that prompted the authorization of polygamy.

http://www.usc.edu/de...

Please, please, how can you dismiss these findings in the Quran and Hadiths?

Sincerely,
Heather


Thus far we have looked at:

1. "Beat" your wives if you fear disloyalty or ill-conduct..." Sura 4:34
http://www.usc.edu/de...

2. "Women are the majority in hell".
Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, Nrrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
http://www.usc.edu/de...

3. "Women lack intelligence" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
http://www.usc.edu/de...

4. "deficient in religion" Volume 1, Book 6, Number 301, narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri
http://www.usc.edu/de...

5. "Go into your wives whichever way you like" (Sura 2.223)
http://www.usc.edu/de...

6. "If women refuse to have sex with their husbands, then they will be cursed by angles"
Narrated Abu Huraira:Volume 7, Book 62, Number 122
http://www.usc.edu/de...

7. Women are equal to dogs and donkeys.
Volume 1, Book 9, Number 498: Narrated 'Aisha:
http://www.usc.edu/de...

8. Women have a crooked nature. ?The woman is like a rib; if you try to straighten her, she
will break. So if you want to get some benefit from her, do so while she still has some
crookedness.? (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 7, book 62, number 113, Khan)
http://www.usc.edu/de...

9. Two women's testimony is equal to one man's because of the deficiency of the women's mind." (Sahih al-Bukhari: volume 3, book 48, number 826, Khan)
http://www.usc.edu/de...

10. Wives and Slave girls (sex slaves) ?Save with their wives and slave girls; for these are lawful for them? (Quran 70:30; see also 23:5). (Qur'an 70:29-30, Pickthall)
http://www.usc.edu/de...
http://www.usc.edu/de...

'Paradise lies under the feet of the mothers' - Hadith
(mind you, this great credit is given to women not men! :)
If Islam is so 'unfriendly to women' as you say it is, why the above Hadith ??

Peace

Here are more and more ladies http://islam.meetup.c... entering and finding Islam extremely 'women friendly'!

ALLAHU AKBAR !!!

'Paradise lies under the feet of the mothers' - Hadith
(mind you, this great credit is given to women not men! :)
If Islam is so 'unfriendly to women' as you say it is, why the above Hadith ??

Peace

Here are more and more ladies http://islam.meetup.c... entering and finding Islam extremely 'women friendly'!

ALLAHU AKBAR !!!

Sid (and others),

Blessings!

Good to hear from you, it has been a while.

Sid please remember that I am bringing Islamic sources from the Quran and authentic Hadiths before you, not some far fetched anti-Muslim information. I have taken the challenge from a Muslim friend to look into Islam for myself. I figured the best way to find out about Islam is the Quran and authentic Hadiths. Would you not suggest this for all who want to know pure Islam?

This is what I have presented to you (and others)! I have never claimed that the Quran and Hadiths don't contain a single "nice" thing to say about women. I am realizing that they are far and beyond compared to the shocking negative that I have posted, but they are there.

I am pointing out the poison in the soup, and you are pointing to the soup. Should those who care and want to know about the poison be informed that the soup has poison in it? I know I would want to know! Will you please inform the ladies you linked me to about this page and discussion so they can join us and see the other side of Islam that is not talked about? They may want to reconsider or they may not. Remember we are talking about the Quran and authentic Hadiths (Islamic sources)!

I have simply stated the "negative" because you don't hear Muslims preaching these passages or traditions (Hadiths).

I have only stated ten thus far, and their is more to be posted. Sid (and others), I wish that it was the other way around, that the positive outweighed the negative, but I am seeing this is not the case. If you want to post all the positive that would be great, but will you please address the negative that I have posted? I am sure you will run out soon with the positive!

You have 10 to start with, but I have heard very little on these from you or others. You continually divert, Sid. You are good at that, but please address the post! I have posted ALL the links to the Quran and Hadiths so it is easy to click on. The silence is saying it all! If I was a Muslim it would be hard to give an account for the Quran and the Hadiths that have been presented, especially how shocking and candid they are! So the silence is not surprising. As I have started my research and bounced these off of my Muslim friends and Muslims in this forum, the answers have been the same. The answers have gone like this, diversions (to other faiths) and silence when that didn't work.

Will you address these shocking teachings, actions, and etc from Islam's Prophet and his counter parts (Bukhari, Sahih Muslim, and etc.)?

Please don't dismiss them with ease, please no more diversions, and please come with all honesty and integrity in your response!

I will post the 10 once more on a separate page, but with more detail this time, maybe this will help.

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